The Village Charter. Yes - it's still being discussed...
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Hi folks – I know it’s been a while but just wanted to make you aware that changes to our Village Charter are being discussed at tonight’s BOT meeting.

    Just to recap…

    Last year, the Charter Review Committee conducted a review of the Charter that included:

    1- Minor changes, such as correcting typos
    2- Eliminating outdated references
    3- Updating and clarifying definitions and names
    4- Deferring to NJ General Law that already overrides Charter provisions
    5- Proposed new changes the committee would characterize as bigger considerations

    Of the proposed new changes, 3 questions were put on the ballot in November of which all of them passed. The vote tallies are as follows:

    Question 1: Should the Village Charter be amended to change the name of our municipality from the “Township of South Orange Village” to “South Orange Village”?

    YES – 2,067 (78.09%)
    NO – 580 (21.91%)

    Question 2: Should the Village Charter be amended to change the title of the “Village President” to “Mayor,” the title of the “Board of Trustees” to “Village Council,” and the title of “Trustee” to “Council member”?

    YES – 1,561 (59.26%)
    NO – 1,073 (40.74%)

    Question 3: Should the Village Charter be amended to provide the Village President an annual stipend of $2,400, without other benefits, and provide Village Trustees with an annual stipend of $1,800 each, without other benefits?

    YES – 1,330 (50.67%)
    NO – 1,295 (49.33%)


    Along with the questions that appeared on the ballot, there were 3 other questions that the BOT will be considering that did not appear on the ballot:

    1. changing biennial municipal elections from May to November

    2. changing the way board resolutions are adopted, to require a majority affirmative vote of Trustees present, not just Trustees who voted

    3. allowing the Village President the right to vote on adoption of the municipal budget.


    If you have not yet sent an email to the BOT and would like to express an opinion on any or all of these considerations, you can just copy/paste the emails below:

    atorpey@southorange.org, mrosner@southorange.org, ddavisford@southorange.org, mgoldberg@southorange.org, jbauer@southorange.org, hlevison@southorange.org, ngould@southorange.org


    I’ll continue to post updates to this thread.

    For more detailed information regarding the Village Charter, visit: http://southorange.org/charterReview/


    Thanks,

    Sheena


    Edited for typo
    Post edited by sheena_collum at 2012-06-25 21:14:33
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    I think it's interesting that the three questions NOT put to a referendum are far weightier and more substantial than the fluff put on the ballot.
  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    mbaldwin - At the time, there was general consensus on most of the other items, so a referendum wasn't warranted. (Although I initially had concerns about moving the election to November, now that the BOE elections will also be moved, I have less concern about the potential for partisan influence.)

    There was some "debate" on the others. As a reminder of my position on Stipends: http://nopayforpoliticians.wordpress.com/ ;-)
  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    Just curious where the money for the stipend and all the changes to signage will come from. We have no money as it is, let alone money to pay for new signs because the town name changes.
  • libraryladylibrarylady
    1.- No
    2. -No
    3. - No

    Next 3

    1-Yes
    2- Yes
    3- No
  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    scottgreenstone said:

    Just curious where the money for the stipend and all the changes to signage will come from. We have no money as it is, let alone money to pay for new signs because the town name changes.



    Scott - it my understanding (and expectation) that any sign changes would ONLY occur over time (i.e., as a sign needs to be replaced anyway). I will confirm, but I don't believe anyone is planning to replace the signs simply because of this change.

    As for stipends, I agree with you 100%.

  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    How is the municipal budget passed today? Do the BOT members vote on it? or just the VA?
  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    scottgreenstone said:

    How is the municipal budget passed today? Do the BOT members vote on it? or just the VA?


    Scott - the Village Administrator prepares the budget and the 6 Trustees vote on it. (The VP does not have a vote)

  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    So this would be adding the VP to the BOT or removing the BOT and just having the VP vote?
  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    Oh, and thanks michael.
  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    scottgreenstone said:

    So this would be adding the VP to the BOT or removing the BOT and just having the VP vote?


    No...the proposed change would allow the VP to ALSO vote on the budget.

  • jayjayp
    I'm not sure I understand the pros and cons of having the VP vote on the budget. The position only votes when there is a board tie vote on all matters. Why would we exempt the budget vote from this process?
  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    Because those that dont pay property taxes should have a say in the budget, right ?
    Post edited by scottgreenstone at 2012-02-27 15:24:38
  • k_sozek_soze
    Sigh, here's a novel idea, let's turn yet another thread into an Alex Torpey hater thread.
    thumb.jpg
  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    Nothing to do with Alex Torpey, but how can someone who doesnt pay property taxes, truly understand the impacts of his or her decisions?
  • k_sozek_soze
    So someone who has no license can't understand the concept of driving rules? If he has a grasp on the process and on economics, should he be kept mute? You are being shortsighted, one day they'll be someone else in that spot, somone who you may approve of simply becasue they are older and pay taxes, what about that person?
  • SO RefugeeSO Refugee
    Renters pay taxes, unless you're naive enough to think landlords do not pass along the cost to their tenants.
    Post edited by SO Refugee at 2012-02-27 15:55:36
  • ctrzaskactrzaska
    Fair point. I assume most would have taken an illegal alien living under a blanket in the ruins of the old stone house over Calabrese.
  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    I never said anything about his age, nor was it specifically about him. It would be anyone that doesnt pay property taxes. If you didnt know anything about medicine, would you be making medical decisions that impacted 25,000 people, I doubt it. So how can someone that is not impacted by the payment of property taxes really understand the pain that people are in when it comes to the budget?

    Please you all take everything to the wrong level and put words into peoples posts.
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    With respect to giving the Village President a vote on the budget.

    The Charter Review Committee supported this (5-1-1). In practice, the budget is really a collective effort of all seven members of the governing body. In other forms of government, the Mayor/Chief Executive may introduce his/her budget and then it's incumbent upon the legislative branch to approve/make changes/vote down, etc. That's not what we do. There's a series of budget workshops, public hearings and then a final adoption. This isn't just a legislative/policy initiative of the BOT - it sets the framework for the entire fiscal year and the VP plays a role in this process. Accordingly, they should be afforded a vote on the adoption of this.

    Personally, I think it's important to have accountability from the VP on whether he or she supported the budget.
    Post edited by sheena_collum at 2012-02-27 16:15:10
  • mcgregorjmcgregorj
    SO Refugee said:

    Renters pay taxes, unless you're naive enough to think landlords do not pass along the cost to their tenants.



    + 1.
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    scottgreenstone said:

    I never said anything about his age, nor was it specifically about him. It would be anyone that doesnt pay property taxes. If you didnt know anything about medicine, would you be making medical decisions that impacted 25,000 people, I doubt it. So how can someone that is not impacted by the payment of property taxes really understand the pain that people are in when it comes to the budget?

    Please you all take everything to the wrong level and put words into peoples posts.



    Then who are you talking about? Who on the BOT, including the VP, doesn't either pay or mortgage or rent in South Orange?
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    sheena_collum said:

    With respect to giving the Village President a vote on the budget.

    The Charter Review Committee supported this (5-1-1). In practice, the budget is really a collective effort of all seven members of the governing body. In other forms of government, the Mayor/Chief Executive may introduce his/her budget and then it's incumbent upon the legislative branch to approve/make changes/vote down, etc. That's not what we do. There's a series of budget workshops, public hearings and then a final adoption. This isn't just a legislative/policy initiative of the BOT - it sets the framework for the entire fiscal year and the VP plays a role in this process. Accordingly, the should be afforded a vote on the adoption of this.

    Personally, I think it's important to have accountability from the VP on whether he or she supported the budget.



    Makes sense to me. Thanks for the analysis, Sheena.

  • scottgreenstonescottgreenstone
    Yes, I am naive. When my taxes go up, people's rent goes up the same percentage. Yup, you got it.
  • barry badrinath
    SO Refugee said:

    Renters pay taxes, unless you're naive enough to think landlords do not pass along the cost to their tenants.



    of course, failure to pay property taxes will not result in a senior lien against the Renter. It will against the property owner. ergo, rent = unsecured obligation (above any secuirty deposit), property taxes = secured obligation (by the property).
  • strawberry
    Just wanted to give Michael Goldberg a shout out. The time he spends answering questions here on MOL is really something I hope residents in SO appreciate. I would love to see an elected leader in Maplewood do the same thing.
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    scottgreenstone and barry badrinath --

    So, are you suggesting that only property owners in town be allowed to hold public office?

    M
  • strawberry
    mbaldwin said:

    scottgreenstone and barry badrinath --

    So, are you suggesting that only property owners in town be allowed to hold public office?

    M



    That's what they seem to be saying. I'm curious, do any municipalities in the state have such rules in place?
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    strawberry said:

    mbaldwin said:

    scottgreenstone and barry badrinath --

    So, are you suggesting that only property owners in town be allowed to hold public office?

    M



    That's what they seem to be saying. I'm curious, do any municipalities in the state have such rules in place?


    I'm pretty sure that's unconstitutional.

  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    strawberry said:

    Just wanted to give Michael Goldberg a shout out. The time he spends answering questions here on MOL is really something I hope residents in SO appreciate. I would love to see an elected leader in Maplewood do the same thing.


    Thanks, Straw. Although, in fairness to our counterparts in MW, I do see posts from Gerry & Vic quite a bit on MOL and Fred used to post pretty often, as well.

    Post edited by michaelgoldberg at 2012-02-27 18:53:26
  • jayjayp
    Why should the budget vote be handled differently from every other vote? Shouldn't it be one way or another? Either the VP votes on everything or nothing (except for a tie). If the argument is for accountability, then the VP should be on the record for every vote, not just the budget I would think.
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    sheena_collum said:

    strawberry said:

    mbaldwin said:

    scottgreenstone and barry badrinath --

    So, are you suggesting that only property owners in town be allowed to hold public office?

    M



    That's what they seem to be saying. I'm curious, do any municipalities in the state have such rules in place?


    I'm pretty sure that's unconstitutional.



    That's my point. ;-)
  • strawberry
    michaelgoldberg said:

    strawberry said:

    Just wanted to give Michael Goldberg a shout out. The time he spends answering questions here on MOL is really something I hope residents in SO appreciate. I would love to see an elected leader in Maplewood do the same thing.


    Thanks, Straw. Although, in fairness to our counterparts in MW, I do see posts from Gerry & Vic quite a bit on MOL and Fred used to post pretty often, as well.



    yeah, but only for agenda driven purposes. ;-)
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Some updates from the discussion currently going on:

    1 - Village name changed approved

    2 - BOT decided to maintain VP/Trustees title over Mayor/Council

    3 - Big debate happening right now about the stipends...
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Also note, no one is referencing any of the results from the non-binding referendum.
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    3 - (cont.) stipends fail

    4 - changing the way board resolutions are adopted - approved

    5 - discussion re: VP vote currently underway
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    5 - (cont.) voted down

    6 - discussing November elections right now (4-2) trustees support it, VP currently raising arguments against it.
  • JCSO
    Thanks for the running commentary, Sheena.
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    6 (cont.) November elections passed
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Anytime.
  • mbaldwinmbaldwin
    Interesting that the BOT followed the referendum results on 1 out of three issues. (And "voted" the same way I did on them.)

    Sheena, what were Torpey's main arguments against November elections?
    Post edited by mbaldwin at 2012-02-27 21:50:20
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    He had a lot of talking points:

    1 - He felt that it wouldn't necessarily increase turnout and that moving the election didn't guarantee more "engaged" voters
    2 - The cost shouldn't be a deciding factor on something so important
    3 - Partisan politics and money will play a large role in elections and compromise the integrity of ours
    4 - The focus should be on turnout in May and doing a better job educating people
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Ok, now for the full version:

    1) Village Name - no brainer. There is no cost associated with this and a lot of the existing signs predate when "Township" was added. Really no discussion regarding that (5-0) - Trustee Davis Ford had not yet arrived.

    2) The argument for not changing titles revolved around the historic nature of these positions and being unique. The BOT was fine with keeping the name the same and it really wasn't a heated discussion. Trustee Bauer noted that she's fine with keeping the status quo for now but anticipates in the near future a full overhaul to the Village Charter and consolidation in which we will become a Faulkner form of government. President Torpey advocated for the name change as did Trustee Davis Ford citing the confusion and the need for the titles to better reflect the times.

    3) Stipends - this definitely got heated. 5-1 not to support the stipends. Trustee Davis Ford and President Torpey argued for it. President Torpey outlined the expenses associated with the position and his arguments revolved around ensuring that all individuals from various economic backgrounds be able to serve without having to incur incremental expenses out of pocket. (Note: the stipend would not have applied to this governing body but rather future bodies). Trustee Davis Ford agreed. Both noted that South Orange is the ONLY community of our population that doesn't provide any compensation (other towns are either salaried (full or part time) or receive modest stipends such as Maplewood). Those who opposed it said everyone ran knowing it was a volunteer position and that it could become a slippery slope. Trustee Gould recognized that she originally voted for this but after seeing the budget figures, would not support it this time around.

    4) Changing the way board resolutions are approved passed pretty easily. For those of you who may be confused by this, right now quorum requires 4 trustees. A resolution could pass 2-1-1 with one abstaining. This will make it so that out of the 4 present, 3 would be needed for the resolution to pass.

    5) Village President's Vote - This went back and forth but ultimately the BOT agreed that in practice, the budget introduced SHOULD be that of the VA and VP and the legislative body should ultimately discuss and approve and/or vote it down, etc. So instead of giving the VP a vote, he/she should be part of introducing the original budget and that should be his/her budget to the legislative body.

    6) Moving elections - definitely more contentious. I described the discussion above and Trustee Rosner and Trustee Levison both concurred with a lot of what President Torpey said and his arguments against the move. (4-2)

    So that's a more detailed account.

    I'm assuming there will be more opportunities for the public to comment as a new version reflective of the changes above will need to come back to the BOT.

    EDITED: The stipends failed with 4 opposed (Bauer, Goldberg, Levison, Gould) and 2 in favor (Davis Ford, Rosner) - the VP also supported this but did not have a vote.
    Post edited by sheena_collum at 2012-02-29 11:29:18
  • ctrzaskactrzaska
    Most. Rational. BOT. Votes. Ever.
  • L.P.L.P.
    A great reporting job by Sheena! Many thanks!
  • sheena_collumsheena_collum
    Ha - I finally have a thread that has more than a couple posts. For the record, my last one on the interactive map of property taxes in the State of NJ failed miserably. So this is a positive step in the right direction ; )
  • michaelgoldbergmichaelgoldberg
    Nice job "live blogging" last night's meeting, Sheena.

    A full recap of the entire meeting is already posted at the Alternative Press: http://thealternativepress.com/articles/south-orange-board-rejects-changing-trustee-tit
  • libraryladylibrarylady
    Thanks Sheena. Great job posting and a great job of voting by our TRUSTEES!
  • L.P.L.P.
    http://thealternativepress.com/articles/south-orange-board-rejects-changing-trustee-tit

    Trustee tit???

    I love the way these URLs get divided sometimes!
  • marylagomarylago
    Thank you, sheena.
  • barry badrinath
    mbaldwin said:

    scottgreenstone and barry badrinath --

    So, are you suggesting that only property owners in town be allowed to hold public office?

    M



    No, I am suggesting what I wrote. Are you suggesting what I wrote is innacurate?

    btw, instead of a stipend, why not just give torpey a brown bag lunch every day. all the basic food groups could be included.
    Post edited by barry badrinath at 2012-02-28 09:42:27
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